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MISS ANGEL UP IN DIS MOFO (moved to #2322)

by Angel (moved to #2322)

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20th Feb 2005 - 10th Oct 2007
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Name: Angel Armogida
Age: 24
Location: London

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PublicTransport VS Private Transport - post edited

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[EDIT]
Public Transport VS Private Transport

Pros & Cons of Public Transport (Bus/Tube)
PROS (4)
+ Parking: No need to worry about finding and paying for parking
+ Charges/Fines: No PCNs (parking, speeding, etc.), Congestion Charge
+ Gas/Petrol: Don't need to spend money on gas
+ Traffic: Do not have to deal directly with traffic

CONS (14)
- Time restriction: Can only travel during the day (unless on night buses)
- Dangerous: Getting harassed (physically & verbally), followed home, etc.
- Unreliability: Strikes & delays
- Hygiene: Filthy floors, seats, rails, dirty people, etc.
- Temperature: Can not control the temperature (too hot/too cold)
- Pick-pockets: Must always keep bags/belongings nearby & always be aware
- Time wasting: Waiting for transportation (sometimes in the rain/cold), driving the long way round to drop people off
- Walking: You may still need to walk 20 minutes to your destination/to the bus stop/underground
- Comfort: Sometimes you don't get a seat, must use headphones for music
- Sharing air space: Catching colds
- Shopping/Luggage: Impossible to do grocery shopping if carrying more than 4 bags
- Changing buses/trains: You may need to take 3 buses to get to your destination
- Missing buses/trains: You can miss a bus by 5 seconds and have to wait half an hour for the next one
- Cost: Fares are very expensive and are increasing


Pros & Cons of Private Transport (Car)
PROS (13)
+ 24/7 access: You can leave/come home at any time and don't need to keep looking at your watch every time you're out
+ Safety: Less chance of getting harassed/followed home, etc.
+ Reliability: Your car will usually work 24/7
+ Hygiene: Your car is always as clean as you want it to be
+ Temperature: You can control how warm/cool you need the car to be

+ Pick-pockets: No need to always look over your shoulder or cling on to your purse
+ No time wasting: You don't have to wait for your car to arrive, walk long distances to your destination, or go the long way round to drop people off
+ Convenience: Drinks, snacks, music, drive-thru's, stop when you want, smoking (if you smoke), etc
+ Comfort: Adjustable seats, everything you need around you
+ Shopping/Luggage: You can bring as much as you want
+ One ride: No need to change cars mid-journey
+ No missing the transport: Your car doesn't drive off leaving you standing in the cold, waiting half an hour before it comes back to pick you up
+ Enjoyable: Some people actually enjoy and have fun driving

CONS (7)
- Charges/Fines: PCNs (parking, speeding, etc.), Congestion Charge
- Mandatory costs: Insurance, MOT, Road Tax
- Gas/Petrol: Prices are going up
- Breakdown costs: AA/RAC, fixing breaks, exhausts, etc.
- Parking: Paying to park your car
- Dealing with traffic directly
- Environmental damage
[/EDIT]

After my recent post on my parking fines turned into a debate about London's public transport, I decided to give y'all the benefit of the doubt and leave my car at home today. Where should I start?

I made two journeys, both from around Shepherd's Bush, near where I live. The first journey was to Fulham and then to Notting Hill gate, then back to Shepherd's Bush (I was giving out my CV). I waited 10 minutes for the 295, not too bad, but the journey took about 25 minutes. Then from Fulham I waited a further 15 minutes for the 28 and it took 30 minutes to get to Notting Hill. From there I waited 5 minutes for the 94 which took me back to where I started in 15 minutes. So overall, not too bad, about an hour and a half to do a journey which in my car would have taken half an hour.

Second journey, from Shepherd's Bush to Swiss Cottage. This normally takes me about 20 minutes by car, sometimes less. It took me an hour and a half by bus, I had to get three different buses. Not only that but my mum came along as she wanted to go and see someone in Swiss Cottage, and some idiot 6 foot bastard pushed her out of the way as we were getting on the bus and my mum twisted her ankle. My mum is 65 years old for God's sake! Where are people's manners? And to add to that, on the way home we waited 30 minutes for the bus, and spent a further hour and a half getting home.

What a waste of time. I was supposed to go to South London today but the whole day was wasted waiting and using public transport. We didn't do the tube because a. it's too expensive and b. my mum can't walk up/down alot of stairs.

NEVER AGAIN! I rest my case.

critical g says:

you know that thing where someone sticks their tongue into their bottom lip. i'm doing that.

7th Jan 2006, 23:36

Dhamaka says:

I think the moral of the story might be - do what you believe is right, listen to everybody but make up your own mind when you have..

I'm really sorry about your Mum, I hope she gets better soon. Have you tried arnica? It's a homeopathic cure I use a lot which is great for bruises and sprains

8th Jan 2006, 00:52

Thanks Dhamaka, I've had alot of bad experiences with public transport, I've had fights, been followed home, been harassed... it's just not for me.

I just wish that London would treat people who chose to drive with a little more courtesy, I just don't feel safe on public transport.

Driving isn't just a means of transportation, to me and to many others it's a hobby and a way of life also.

8th Jan 2006, 01:17

Dhamaka says:

It used to be a hobby for me, now it's just practical. Given the choice if it's daylight I'll cycle, if it's not (or if I have to carry more than will fit on my back) I'll drive. I feel bad about the pollution but like you, life is just too full and I suspect like you, I don't feel safe and it's limiting - in terms of the time it takes to get from A to be but also in terms of the times you have to do it.

8th Jan 2006, 05:40

That's true. I'm glad someone else can see my point. I always have so much to carry around with me, and with my bad back all that I can carry in my hands in my purse.

I've been driving for 3 and a half years and I enjoy it now as much as I did three and a half years ago. I'm even considering being a courier or a chauffer.

8th Jan 2006, 13:35

Steve says:

Is the tube really to expensive? when you start factoring in petrol, congestion charge, and parking?

Maybe you live in an area with bad transport? I don't know I've not tried to get there. But from finsbury park all is great. even in rush hour.

Public transport can be a bugger especially if you have to carry stuff, this is the sort of time that you should use your car. But for every day stuff I still think public transport is the better, cleaner, option, that is better for the community as a whole.

I am sorry that you had another bad experience, i've only had one bad experience on the buses in quite a few years.

Don't give up on it.

Maybe a motorbike would be better for you?

8th Jan 2006, 13:45

Well I usually avoid the congestion charge and parking can be really cheap, even free if you know where to park. The only thing is petrol, but that too works out cheaper than paying transport fares. I'm currently looking for a job and I have to go to a job centre which is really difficult to get to by bus/tube. By bus it takes over an hour but by car it's only 10-15 minutes and parking is £1.

I had a photoshoot a few days ago and we had to take the tube 1 stop. It cost me £3!!! It's fucked up.

8th Jan 2006, 15:20

Steve says:

Yeah but if you wanted to go 15 stops it would have costed you the same

8th Jan 2006, 15:29

Steve says:

Also if no one used public transport then they would all use cars, which would make yours pretty useless! I would get as many people as possible to use it if I were you.

8th Jan 2006, 15:31

gofes says:

If it was only 1 stop could you not of walkerd it?
If not and it was a fair distance then you got your £3 worth.

8th Jan 2006, 23:54

mzcrazee says:

musta been lookin at all ur old pichas.. flippin hell girl der musta been around 3.. THREEE penalty fines!!! lol

9th Jan 2006, 15:14

Steve says:

Ha, just had a look at what adverts google has given you. You are advertising Public transport :) genius!

9th Jan 2006, 15:40

I couldn't walk it because I was doing an on-location photoshoot and I was in heels. I had already walked a long distance and had blisters on my feet. £3 for 1 stop is outrageous. What about those who can't walk one stop for other reasons. Before my mum turned 60 she could hardly walk around the house but wasn't given disability privileges, she always had to pay to go one stop on the tube / bus, I'm sure there are thousands out there in that position. She didn't travel enough to get a weekly pass so either way it was a rip off. Public transport is dirty, smelly, unreliable, dangerous, and well overpriced.

9th Jan 2006, 15:42

jc1000000 says:

LOL. Angel... you just have the worst luck!

Of all the places to go by public transport IMO fulham and notting hill is the equivalent of the bermuda triangle- you'll never get home. It is the black hole of London Transport! In fact if I ever have to go that direction I basically
a) pack my night things
b) flatly refuse to go

Basically IMNSHO Notting Hill by public transport is the journey of teh damned.

And the 295... of all the buses in the world! That's probably the most sporadic and annyoying ever... The only bus worse than that is the G1. The golden rule is if it's gorra letter on it you're fuct!

Still, i admire you're effort and determination. Don't give up yet!

9th Jan 2006, 16:25

A says:

The only way that public transport is likely to get better and cheaper is if people use it. Using a car for a 15 minute journey is extremely selfish if you consider the damage you are doing to the environment. People who can use public transport should.

9th Jan 2006, 16:50

melissaamy says:

I would have hoped it being a photo shoot (thus implying modeling) that they would have coughed up the money for a cab, especially since you were in heels....
and not running the risk of you ruining the outfit you were modeling in..

9th Jan 2006, 18:34

Dhamaka says:

wow - is this pressure or what! But they've not persuaded me that my cycle-in-the-daytime-drive-in-the-night policy should be changed

A...the way that public transport will get better and cheaper might well be because more people use it, but to persuade more people to use it it's often a good idea to have a *good*, *clean*, *safe*, *reliable* service. Other countries manage (you can set your watch to the public transport in The Hague) it's not actually too much to ask..

Just to put this selfishness in perspective, do you buy fruit and vegetables out of season? Some might say that financially supporting the transport of fruit and veg around the world is far more damaging to the environment and local economy..

10th Jan 2006, 06:26

jc1000000 says:

Yeah.. it's true about the fruit and veg stuff. Do market traders buy stuff out of season aswell? How do you know what's in and what's out?

Some mates are plannig to address 'food miles' etc here

10th Jan 2006, 10:30

jc1000000 says:

Hey... and I can talk... actually planning to learn to drive this year!

10th Jan 2006, 10:30

that link dont seem to work jc

10th Jan 2006, 10:33

daz says:

*sigh*

Again: I have never said that driving is NOT more practical than public transport. In fact, I do quite a bit of driving myself. About 500km a week, if I don't feel like hauling my luggage all over three different trains on my way home from / to uni and take twice as long.

10th Jan 2006, 10:35

jc1000000 says:

bmal... cheers- works now!

10th Jan 2006, 10:40

spongevid says:

i guess it depends on how well run the public transport system is run where ever people live.

when living in prague and other places in the czech republic, i REALLY liked their public transport. it didn't look all the great, but it was reliable and cheap. even for locals it was cheap and not just because of the exchange rate. and getting from a to b never took longer than expected!

i don't live in london, but it does have a good link of modes of transport to get around the whole city, it's just really badly looked after and maintained.

10th Jan 2006, 10:40

Watching Des & Mel, and I quote:

"Public transport is something to moan about" - Mel

10th Jan 2006, 13:36

A says:

Oh well if Des and Mel say so, My bad!

Dhamaka: Where is the money for these improvements coming from if not from us though. Either through taxes or higher fares we will pay for improvements in some way. (And it only seems fair that the people who use the service pay for it)

With regards to food, it's hard in london to buy from farm shops or the like without using a car or ordering online and having it delivered. I like to walk my shopping home, so I just try to buy seasonal food.

10th Jan 2006, 16:58

A says:

I dont think you have added enough cons in the private transport section....
- Unreliability - so traffic jams don't make driving unreliable?
- Dangerous - to yourself/other people - need i explain more?
- Car Parks - usually you have to park further away than the bus/train drops you.
- Environmental damage.

PLUS- Pick-pockets: Must always keep bags/belongings nearby & always be aware - really this can only be avoided if you never go outside so I don't think it's valid.

10th Jan 2006, 19:18

Traffic jams are valid for public transport also, the same goes for danger - there aren't even seat belts on buses so I'd say they're more dangerous. You don't have to park in a car park, there are pay & display meters and single yellow lines after hours which means you can park right outside especially if you need to stop off quickly at the corner shop. You can stop for a few seconds practically anywhere anytime also.

I'll add environmental damage because I forgot that.

I meant pick-pockets when you're sitting down and travelling. Everytime the bus/train stops I have to grab my bags to make sure someone doesn't quickly grab them and run. You don't need to do that in your own car.

10th Jan 2006, 19:30

Also, using a car for a 15 minute journey is not extremely selfish. It can take up to an hour and a half for me to travel to a specific destination which I have to travel to regularly, by car it's only 15 minutes.

I drive to my boyfriend's house which takes 5 minutes and I don't think it is selfish as there are no buses that go from mine to his and it takes half an hour to walk, not something I want to do considering it's through dark alley ways.

10th Jan 2006, 19:39

Dhamaka says:

A, your list makes it sound like you don't have a lot of experience of driving and parking in London, you've not responded to my food miles point and you've not told me that you don't travel abroad for holidays. That's fine, it's your right, but what I was demonstrating is that different people draw the line in different places and it doesn't mean that their net carbon deficit is any bigger than yours - you may find it's smaller!

Now we can't all fight every battle that we believe in because if we did we'd be completely inefficient and ineffectual at all of them. Why not just take the point that London living is not as simple as deciding only to use public transport and let it go. I've made my point now and won't be back.

10th Jan 2006, 20:24

teflon says:

I keep on meaning to add something to this, but constantly get distracted by that pesky work thing.

There are some journeys where public transport work out better than a private car, and vice versa.

For me, most of the time, public transport suits me fine. I live and work a couple of minutes from a tube station, so it would be silly not to use it.
At the moment, if work starts or finishes very late or very early, they pay for a cab. This takes about half an hour - but it's far outside rush hour, and the drivers go veryvery fast. I don't doubt that it would take twice that to get there if I was starting a shift during the day.
(in Glasgow, buses truly are rubbish, I may start a rant about that elsewhere.)

I don't agree with a couple of your arguments, though.
- Hygene Tube carriages are usually pretty clean (although yes, I'll admit, buses can be less so)
- Reliability: Your car will usually work 24/7 - not so, it's could be just as likely to break down as a bus would. Oh, and my last car leaked a bit.
- cost of public transport - in London, depending on how you pay, some fares have just gone down. I realise that it can be a pain to have to give Mayor Ken your money up front for a Pre-pay Oyster card - particularly if you're a visitor to London, but if you're a resident and an infrequent user, it's a good deal. (look at daily price capping - it's great!)
- You can stop for a few seconds practically anywhere anytime also. Have you considered that this can be one of the reasons that buses are unreliable? Cars parked in bus lanes were the bane of my life when I used to commute on the 607 on the Uxbridge Road.

another pro of public transport:
- you can get lost in a book. If I was stuck in traffic, I'd far prefer to whiling away the time reading on the bus, rather than staring at the car in front's brake lights.
- you get to marvel at the wonders of other people's lives, overhear conversations, and, if you're into that kind of thing, flirt. I know someone who's been asked out on a date on the Glasgow underground - on two seperate occasions.
- you don't need to be sober. Get home drunk without shelling out a ton for a taxi.

Oh, and it might be worth adding that yesterday, while the station staff were supposedly on strike, it didn't take me any longer to get to work than normal.

10th Jan 2006, 20:42

Dhamaka says:

.. I've tried that flirting thing, and the being friendly thing. Don't know if it's me but I get the impression people think I'm planning to mug them if I'm friendly in London...

... but maybe it's me....

10th Jan 2006, 21:42

Well maybe I'm just very clean because I think the trains are extremely dirty.

Oyster card? Some of us don't want to have our every move tracked.

I've had my car for over 3 years and it has not broken down once. Even if it did chances are I could fix it on the spot (daughter of a mechanic).

I never stop in bus lanes/bus stops. I meant you can stop on a single yellow (even a double at times) if someone is in the car. It's much more convenient than getting off the bus mid-journey to pop into the video store for 10 seconds to return a DVD and come back out to wait for another bus.

Who says you can't read whilst stuck in traffic in your own car? It's the only time I ever read. Or why not get someone else to read for aloud?

I don't get drunk when I go out, I'm not 16 anymore. It's a pointless waste of money which gives you nothing but a hangover the next day.

So driving is best for me, public transport is best for you. Lets leave it at that.

And yes, being friendly is pointless, people just think you're weird and ignore you anyway.

10th Jan 2006, 23:12

Dhamaka says:

I'm with you about the tracking, girl. I know I keep saying it but the whole we-don't-have-any-privacy-any-more thing scares the sh*t out of me

10th Jan 2006, 23:23

teflon says:

To be honest, I am in two minds about Oyster cards. In fact, I think it deserves a post of its own. Just a sec.. :)

10th Jan 2006, 23:25

spinboy says:

The problem is anything you do can be track these days. Based around your credit card or cashcard people can find out about your spending habits as well as your relative location.

Even traveling around in a car is not anon anymore. Go into the centre of London and they know you are there. I believe that the British government is currently putting in places the facility to track every vechicle that uses the motorways, and soon your car will have a GPS receiver for your pay as you go road tax.

We live in a society where nothing is what it seems. If you don't want to be tracked, recieve your cash from randomly chosen banks in your city in coinage only and travel on public transport.

10th Jan 2006, 23:32

Steve says:

I really don't mind if someone tracks my oyster card, I hope they have fun.

Parking on yellow lines..... didn't you just whinge about getting tickets?

Good for you not drinking its neither big or clever.... but it can be socialble and fun.

"And yes, being friendly is pointless, people just think you're weird and ignore you anyway."

Not being ignored might not be the reason for being friendly!

You read whilst you are stuck in traffic? a book? not road signs? wow that's really bad in more ways than I can describe.

If everyone stopped using public transport your car would turn into a real expensive sofa.

10th Jan 2006, 23:33

Steve says:

We pay for the right to carry tracking devices! how silly is that?

But then it all comes down to conveinience (spell) I don't mind the trade off, I won't carry ID cards on princable.

But if the goverment is interested then they are welcome to me

10th Jan 2006, 23:39

Dhamaka says:

*thinks* Enemy of the State

11th Jan 2006, 00:38

How is it bad to read a book if I'm stuck in miles of traffic and no one is going anywhere? People turn off their engines!

You can't be friendly because when you smile or say hi, good morning, etc to people they look at you like there's something wrong or like I've just told them "Hi, I've just escaped from a mental institute".

I got a ticket because I didn't have a watch and came 5 minutes late back to my car. You're not going to get a parking ticket if you're in the car waiting a few minutes for someone, and you can always just drive around the block once - no biggie.

Yes teflon, the oyster card does need a post of it's own. Go for it. Post the link.

11th Jan 2006, 00:40

Steve says:

As a journalist I could see why you would be worried, it's not that much of a stretch to see you being tracked over a story. and for that reason we should be vigilant. but you don't have to register an oyster card.....

11th Jan 2006, 00:45

Steve says:


CONS (14)
- Time restriction: Can only travel during the day (unless on night buses) SO STILL WORKABLE

- Dangerous: Getting harassed (physically & verbally), followed home, etc. FEW AND FAR BETWEEN

- Unreliability: Strikes & delays GENERALLY VERY RELIABLE IF YOU USE THE SERVICE OFTEN, AND FACTOR IN POSSIBLE DELAYS

- Hygiene: Filthy floors, seats, rails, dirty people, etc. NO WORSE THAN THE OUTSIDE WORLD

- Temperature: Can not control the temperature (too hot/too cold) WEAR A COAT AND/SCARF, IF TO WARM REMOVE COAT AND/OR SCARF

- Pick-pockets: Must always keep bags/belongings nearby & always be aware THAT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYWHERE

- Time wasting: Waiting for transportation (sometimes in the rain/cold), driving the long way round to drop people off. IF MORE PEOPLE USED IT THERE WOULD BE MORE SERVICES

- Walking: You may still need to walk 20 minutes to your destination/to the bus stop/underground A BIT OF EXERCISE IS GOOD FOR YOU

- Comfort: Sometimes you don't get a seat, must use headphones for music SEE ABOVE COMMENT ON EXERCISE, HEADPHONES CAN BE BAD FOR YOUE EARS, I WILL GIVE YOU THAT

- Sharing air space: Catching colds HELPS TO BUILD UP YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM

- Shopping/Luggage: Impossible to do grocery shopping if carrying more than 4 bags MY MAKE YOU SHOP LOCALLY FOR SMALL ITEMS WHICH IS BETTER FOR YOUR COMMUNITY. FOR LARGE GROCCERY SHOPPING MOST PEOPLE DELIVER

- Changing buses/trains: You may need to take 3 buses to get to your destination YEP

- Missing buses/trains: You can miss a bus by 5 seconds and have to wait half an hour for the next one ERR YEP

- Cost: Fares are very expensive and are increasing THEY JUST WENT DOWN IN PRICE


Pros & Cons of Private Transport (Car)
PROS (13)
+ 24/7 access: You can leave/come home at any time and don't need to keep looking at your watch every time you're out GOOD POINT

+ Safety: Less chance of getting harassed/followed home, etc. NOT STRICTLY TRUE, THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF ROAD RAGE, AND SOME PEOPLE STALK DRIVERS THEY SEE PLUS YOUR MORE LIKELY TO BE ALONE, YOUR NEVER ALONE ON A BUS.

+ Reliability: Your car will usually work 24/7 TRUE

+ Hygiene: Your car is always as clean as you want it to be TRUE

+ Temperature: You can control how warm/cool you need the car to be AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A GOOD CAR, I HAVE BEEN IN MANY A OVERHEATING CAR IN LONDON TRAFFIC, REALLY NOT NICE.


+ Pick-pockets: No need to always look over your shoulder or cling on to your purse EXCEPT SMASH AND GRABS AND CAR JACKING

+ No time wasting: You don't have to wait for your car to arrive, walk long distances to your destination, or go the long way round to drop people off EXCEPT TRAFFIC JAMS, LACK EXERCISE, THE LONG WAY HOME CAN BE FUN

+ Convenience: Drinks, snacks, music, drive-thru's, stop when you want, smoking (if you smoke), etc DRINKS AND SNACKS ARE FINE, BUT CONCIDER OTHERS. SMOKINGS BAD FOR YOU ANYWAY

+ Comfort: Adjustable seats, everything you need around you WE LIVED IN CAVES, I THINK WE CAN ROUGH IT NOW AND AGAIN

+ Shopping/Luggage: You can bring as much as you want DAMN RIGHT

+ One ride: No need to change cars mid-journey YES, UNLESS YOU JUST ROBBED A BANK
+ No missing the transport: Your car doesn't drive off leaving you standing in the cold, waiting half an hour before it comes back to pick you up UNLESS SOMEONE USES IT FOR A BANK JOB
+ Enjoyable: Some people actually enjoy and have fun driving YES THEY DO.... BUT NOT SO MUCH IN LONDON, AND EVEN LESS IF PEOPLE DON'T USE PUBLIC TRANSPORT.

CONS (7)
- Charges/Fines: PCNs (parking, speeding, etc.), Congestion Charge
- Mandatory costs: Insurance, MOT, Road Tax
- Gas/Petrol: Prices are going up
- Breakdown costs: AA/RAC, fixing breaks, exhausts, etc.
- Parking: Paying to park your car
- Dealing with traffic directly
- Environmental damage
ENVIROMENTAL DAMAGE! THAT'S A RATHER LARGE CON:

11th Jan 2006, 01:05

I can see both sides of the argument. I reckon you can probably divide public transport into buses and trains though; in general, I find the tube is much more reliable than most bus services. Personally, I'm happy travelling on the tube; it means I can have the occasional drink, I can read without having to keep an eye on whether the traffic's moving, and from where I lived, it was actually quicker than driving to get into central london. I can't really comment on the safety issue though, because I'm tall, male and relatively innocuous, so probably get hassled far less.

Oh, and I agree with Steve; another con to driving is vandalism/theft/(ermm... and bank robbery) etc. One of my friends had a window smashed in while her car was parked, and the cost of replacing just that was horrific.

It's a pity they can't clean up the transport system a bit though; the skytrain in Vancouver is a joy to use.

11th Jan 2006, 01:57

The problem with cars is that they cost a lot to run in terms of tax, MOT and paying for things that go wrong.

But if you have a car for work or whatever reason then you are paying for all that stuff anyway.

So if you own a car and want to make a journey you are faced with a quick drive and minimal expense or a mammoth 'adventure' on the bus which will take you forever and cost you some too.

When RAB used to live in the UK it was a 2 bus journey that would take over an hour or more with waiting around. Or 10 minutes in the car.

I'd love to take the bus more as I actually quite enjoy it but if it's somewhere I can walk to in 45 minutes then it'll probably be quicker for me not to bother with the bus.

The tube was fine when I used to use it for work - could rely on it timewise. But you are left with the choice of standing or sitting and knowing there's an older person who'd like your seat.

But like I say, my main problem with public transport (particularly buses) is that with more then one of you it's going to be cheaper to drive.

11th Jan 2006, 02:13

Steve says:

I'm more up for the idea of people only having a certain amount of driving time allowed in London like a ration book perhaps?

That way when you did drive it would be a pleasure! and the public transport would get used more, which would increase revenue, reliablilty, and with the smaller amount of traffic journey times would get faster.

but it probably wouldn't work.

11th Jan 2006, 02:26

Dhamaka says:

Nobody has persuaded me. I'll still cycle whenever I can (ie when I think its safe, which mostly means when it's light - not for rape or harassment but because of the number of hits and brushes I've had with cars even when I've been in separate cycle lanes and drive the rest of the time.

I usually take public transport for longer trips (ie to friends in Windsor) because I can work on the way, but using the laptop on the tube is tempting providence and I'd still much rather drive to a mainline station and go from there.

I've never had parking problems in London, there are still places that are cheap or free if you know where to look, all less than 5 minutes walk along big, light streets to the places I want to get to.

I live in a nice area but people are attacked walking home or to their cars from the tube here too, and I could write a book a bout the bad, dodgey and retrospectively (ie now I'm not going through it) hilarious experiences I've had on the tube over the years - only one of which was in an otherwise unoccupied carriage.

I don't drink so driving's no problem for me there, and am always happy to give friends lifts home, but the only time I use public transport is when I'm really tired (seems to me that if I walk into things when I'm tired it's best not to even get into a car).

Speaking as an ex risk manager, buses are still safer, tubes are brilliant for transmission of infection, disesase, terrorism et etc and I guess the fact that I only contemplate using the tube atin the night time that will colours my attitude too.

Alina - a matter of interest - if I stopped going places because they smelled I'd have to stop going almost everywhere ( eg - Canary Wharf - outside smells of car fumes and chemicals from the plant down the river and inside smells of cleaning solvents eg - Islington, most of the outside of which smells of rats. The tube smells of the tube, old rubbish, dust, earth and less of rats than parts of Islington and Soho..... I don't ever remember smelling cleaning solvents in the underground which is interesting because I have a *very* keen sense of smell)

But that's just me..

11th Jan 2006, 08:10

Rich says:

But... All of london is a stinky pit...

11th Jan 2006, 08:55

Steve says:

I don't doubt that cars are more convenient, but there are way to many in London to continue functioning properly. If you don't use public transport it won't improve.

11th Jan 2006, 11:07

A says:

"With regards to food, it's hard in london to buy from farm shops or the like without using a car or ordering online and having it delivered. I like to walk my shopping home, so I just try to buy seasonal food."

11th Jan 2006, 11:32

teflon says:

I just remembered another con of public transport: people listening to music at too high a volume through their headphones, and this is a new one: people who play music through their mobile phone's tinny loudspeaker. It's bloody annoying.

Steve: funny you should mention robbing banks.. my dad told me about someone who used to rob banks in Glasgow, then run onto the nearest bus as a getaway car. I think he got caught when the bus got stuck in traffic on Argyle Street.

For anyone who's not seen it, my post about Oyster cards is at http://moblog.co.uk/view.php?id=123005

Oh, and Angel - I had a brilliant idea last night. How about we swap for a week? I borrow your car, you borrow my Travelcard. See how it works out. (Then we can write an article about it and hawk it to the Guardian or something) :)

11th Jan 2006, 11:52

Dhamaka says:

like trading places but with transport? Will you wear Angel's high heels and sexy clothes too? Because I'd *love* to see a photo of that....

11th Jan 2006, 12:29

teflon says:

I'm.. er.. not sure that they'd fit me..!

11th Jan 2006, 12:39

lol @ teflon.

Okay, to tell you the truth, I too see both sides of the argument but as most people are for public transport I thought I'd stick to one side to balance it out.

My mum takes public transport everyday and always gets to her destination. I don't know how long it takes her to get there, but everytime she gets home it's always "I waited an hour for the bus" or "The bus broke down" or "There wasn't enough room on the bus".

The tube is just as bad, I did a two week course a couple of years ago which meant I had to take the tube there everyday. I got in on time three times. The other 7 times the Northern Line was delayed or rammed packed and I couldn't get on.

Personally, I'm really not big on tubes because during rush hour I just can't breathe. I actually feel physically sick when I have people's armpits in my face.

I have been followed home from the bus/tube so many times I can't even count. Maybe it's because I'm the total opposite of RareAquaticBadger; I'm female, 5'3", and not in the least bit intimidating looking. The reason why I say cars are much safer in this argument is that once you are off the bus or out of the tube station, that's usually when you realise someone is following you and what can you do? If there is no one around and you're heading home at night when all the shops are shut you're pretty much stuck. In a car you will notice pretty much straight away or when you've stopped your car that someone is following you. You can either get back into your car, or if still in the car you can drive to the nearest gas station or police station.

And I agree with Dhamaka, if you know where to look parking in London can be very cheap. After 6:30pm most single yellow lines are free. Some malls for example parking in Kings Mall in Hammersmith is only 80p for upto 2 hours, £1 for upto 3. There are plenty of places like this.

Anyway, about the traffic, I don't mind it so much. You can always find something to do in a car, play music out load, eat smelly food, talk on your handsfree, sing aloud... and if you're on the motorway just stop off at services.

I disagree with what Steve mentioned about only letting people drive at certain times in Central London. That takes away people's rights in a way. Besides, some people like myself who have serious physical problems with walking long distances and sitting for a long time in tube/bus seats (another reason why I drive), would be restricted. Ideally, I would be registered disabled, but my doctor and physio are complete idiots who, dispite a lump having formed in the middle of my spine, refuse to believe that I'm in agony. That's why I'm changing doctors today, but that's another post. People like me would not be able to travel much when in pain.

And about food shopping. I do most of it at Asda, Tesco or Sainsburys. It's just the convenience of having everything there such as toiletries and ready made meals for those lazy nights. Again it's partly about my back, I can't carry heavy stuff back home without my car. Sometimes I even have to ask a store assistant to do my shopping with me ie. push the trolley and put the heavy things in it. Not just me being a diva but when I get the lump on my spine I can hardly move and can't lift a thing. Even turning the wheel when driving is hard.

Oh yeah, I'd cycle if I could ride a bike lol

11th Jan 2006, 12:50

Steve says:

*Off topic*

This is quite embarrassing, seeing as how I have been to your page many times but, what does "UP IN DIS MOFO" mean?

11th Jan 2006, 12:58

lol. you're the second person who has asked since I've been on moblog. Miss Angel up in this muthafucka. lol. I did it for the attention when I started on moblog, it worked, but now I can't be bothered to change it.

*sniff* I think my cat just did a poop, brb. lol

11th Jan 2006, 13:06

A says:

Steve: "+ 24/7 access: You can leave/come home at any time and don't need to keep looking at your watch every time you're out GOOD POINT" - I think as Miss A-T has already proved - you do need to look at your watch, otherwise you end up with a parking ticket!!!

PS. "Oyster card? Some of us don't want to have our every move tracked." - You don't have to register if you don't want to.

11th Jan 2006, 13:20

Steve says:

Thanks for that, the info not the poop!

11th Jan 2006, 13:21

A - I meant you don't need to worry about missing the last bus/train. It's far worse than getting a ticket.

Some people would say you could get a cab, but I don't take cabs because when I was 16 my dad got hit by one and died.

11th Jan 2006, 13:33

Dhamaka says:

I'm really sorry Angel, can't imagine how that would feel.

11th Jan 2006, 13:40

kel says:

I don't feel safe in cabs unless I'm with others. Plus I don't really have the money for them.

The safety issue is such a personal one, personally even though I'm a 5'3" female who has been harrassed on public transport before, I still feel safer getting a night bus where I can always ask the driver for help/move seats than a cab where whoever's driving is in a lot more control. Plus I don't have the option of driving myself,,, and I'm not sure I would use it if I did. I enjoy having a drink and I'm VERY anti drink driving. And where I live now (although I did used to live somewhere less busy) there's usually always people about on the street when I get home late. If I'm worried I tend to text/call someone when I'm on the bus to let em know where I am and when I should be home.

But I can understand why Angel feels more secure in her car at night - it is a personal thing and everyone knows what they feel safe doing/not doing. At the end of the day, you can be the most sensible person in the world and have the worst luck (like the girl attacked and killed on her doorstep in Croydon over the summer - she got a lift to her front door from someone she knew and trusted.)

I think they need to bring back conductors on buses, would definitely make me feel a lot safer.

11th Jan 2006, 13:48

Another reason why I feel safer driving and I feel it's less safe for me to take the bus/night bus is that I'm usually thinking about when I finish work at 4am. I can't call/text people because they're all asleep and no shops are open.

At the end of the day it's a personal choice. Some people feel safe high up, and some people are afraid of heights. Some people feel safer on a boat, some people feel safer on a plane. Lets just all accept everyone else's choice and agree to disagree on some points and lets all live in a happy world filled with rainbows and candy. yay!

11th Jan 2006, 13:54

I'm all for the candy side of things but rainbows require some rain so I'll happily give them a miss!

Agree with everything said though.

11th Jan 2006, 14:05

A says:

I agree that it's tough when the world isn't always safe enough for us to do what is right, but on the other hand we aint gonna see the rainbows soon if we carry on the same way.

11th Jan 2006, 16:01

Whoops... the problem with being 8 hours behind is I miss loads to these topics.

My point was that because i'm unlikey to get hassled on the tube (I'm not intimidating btw; I'm just quiet and easily forgettable) it works for me, but possibly not for more noticable/female/old/infirm/attractive/vulnerable people.

As an aside, I don't actually drive, so public transport is the only way to go. I think after the expense of tax, insurance, petrol, and buying the bugger, cars are more expensive, but if you've got one, then you may as well make the most of it.

Walkley Talkley> you're right actually; to go from Chingford to Loughton would take over an hour by bus; the same length of time to go from Loughton to Tottenham Court Road by tube!

12th Jan 2006, 02:12

Yea, I don't mean to sound really up myself, but I'm not unattractive and usually get harassed by guys asking for my number etc. and when I say no or please leave me alone they start calling me a hoe or following me. It's not my fault, I don't wear tiny skirts or low cut tops, I cover up. It's worse when they're drunk they just try to touch you up and shit. It's horrible. I don't understand how this doesn't happen to other people but it happens to me every time I go on public transport and it's scary especially when there is no one else around.

Yes, guys holla when I'm in the car, but it's very innocent and I can just drive off anyway. I've been followed once in my car but I'm a very confident driver so I'm not afraid of that. I just drove to a police station (this was at 3AM) and asked a cop to escort me (driving the police car behind mine) back home.

12th Jan 2006, 14:13